Mark goes rogue and delivers his first solo episode. Don’t tell Rex.
Welcome to Jessup think I’m your host, Mark Moore. And today on the episode, I am going rogue.
going solo, this will be our first entry into the solo podcast. But I really had a topic that I’ve been wanting to talk about wanting to do a show on it and haven’t been able to kind of find a guest maybe who’s willing to talk about it or, or who’s maybe as excited as I am about the topic. And so I wanted to take this opportunity, just you and me just just the listeners in me to talk about an experience that I think is common to us all. I think it’s something that we all experience. But we don’t necessarily maybe have words for it or have a description of it. And and I think putting a description on it is going to maybe help us understand what exactly is going on with that experience that I want to talk about today is that experience when someone tells you that you can’t do something, why do you immediately want to do that? Right? Like you, you may not have ever even been thinking about it. You were never wanted to do that. But the minute someone says, You can’t do this, you have that sense of Oh, yeah. Well, you can’t Who are you to tell me? And, and and even if it’s something you haven’t talked about, or haven’t even thought about, you still have that kind of desire. And I kind of kind of note that desire as a pre reflective desire. And what I mean there is, you don’t think about it, it just kind of happens. someone tells you, you can’t do this.
You You can’t drive over 55 miles an hour new lingo really, what about 56 157? What about 85? If you live in California, and so, but you just have that desire, and sometimes I think it’s good for us to then take those pre reflective desires, and really examine them, like, wow, Where is that coming from? Like, I didn’t even want to do that thing. But when you put a limit on me, are you telling me No, I now want to do it. And so to illustrate this kind of experience, I want to tell you a story about the Parental Advisory stickers. Now the Parental Advisory stickers occurred during a time of American civilization, when people still bought CDs and cassette tapes. So for all my listeners, maybe under the age of 30, will say CDs are these circular things, they are mostly silver, and used to put them into a CD player. And a lot of cars were equipped with CD players, cassettes, the more the little rectangle, got tape in there. You may have seen them in your grandpa’s collection, maybe. Now, here’s you could also think about this. This Parental Advisory sticker was also on vinyl was also on LPs, which I’m really excited that that has made a full comeback and the sound is so much better. So maybe for all my listeners under 30. It’s a CD is kind of like a record just smaller, and sounds worse because it’s compressed. But but they would have been on on both. And it’s really interesting, kind of the story behind the Parental Advisory sticker because even now with a lot of our streaming services, we have something similar in the sense of well known songs as explicit, right explicit language or explicit content. And that was the purpose behind the Parental Advisory sticker and it all kind of started actually with a group called parents music Resource Center and this was co founded by tipper Gore. And so in some ways, they became known as the tipper stickers, but tipper Gore. So she’s the wife of Al Gore, if you have some political American history, and she was a little bit concerned about albums that her daughter had. So in the early 80s, this group got together the pmrc with tipper gore and others, and they put together a list of songs that had explicit content explicit language and they took that to the Recording Industry Association of America that are are ay ay ay ay ay. and said, Hey, we we really feel like we need to have stickers on these to let parents know the type of language that’s being used. You know, we can come kind of a warning and This actually went all the way to a, a Senate committee hearing in the Senate Committee on Commerce did a hearing in in 1985. To talk about this and it’s really fascinating hearing because you have tipper gore and others testifying. But then you also have notable musicians like Frank Zappa, Dee Snider, from Twisted Sister, which, you know, actually, when you take the face makeup off, and the leather pants, he’s pretty eloquent person. And he spoke quite well. Also, john Denver spoke out against the sticker. So the musicians kind of spoke out against the stickers, and the sense that this was some type of censorship and was, was against them. And was was restricting their freedom, which that will come back out. But then the parents were kind of like, Hey, we need this. And then the senate committee kind of passed this, the ri started putting on those stickers. And then by by the 90 by the 1990s, that black and white Parental Advisory sticker became kind of ubiquitous it was it was everywhere. And, and stores would even promote that they were using, right like stores that wanted to promote themselves as family friendly would say we have the stickers. So parents will look for them. And it was really an interesting experience in the 90s. Because
this, the stickers didn’t end up restricting the freedom of the artists, right, the artists could still record what they want. And it was just a no and in fact, it didn’t do anything to discourage album sales. And Some even say, it helped bump album sales up but in fact, it drew in younger buyers. And and and I remember that, you know, experience, even when I was you know, a young kid in the 90s. And you would have a friend now these were friends not me right now I had only the edited version. But when you would have the edited version, friends would say like, Oh, this is the edited version, not the real one. So it became this kind of edited versus real. And people were drawn younger people were drawn to get the real one they were drawn to get the one that had the sticker on that said your parents probably don’t want you to have this. And so it it drew them in and in different genres benefited from it. Greg Beto from reason magazine kind of noted this in the 90s that if a hip hop album didn’t have a tipper stickers, what he called a tipper sticker on it, it was actually looked as as kind of maybe artistically suspect, like, Whoa, what is this about, it doesn’t warrant it. And then there became a lot of parodies, bands, like Guns and Roses would put their own Parental Advisory sticker on it kind of making fun. And it did not interfere with ticket or with record sales at all, but in fact, kind of made it more desirable. And I’ve always found that fascinating. And, and psychology actually gives us a term for this. And I think it’s really helpful to, to kind of note this term, because we’ve experienced, we experienced this. And the Parental Advisory sticker is kind of a good picture of that, right? someone saying, Hey, your parents don’t want you to buy this, like, whoo, I want to buy that now, for some reason, right? Like, they could have just come out with an album that was already the quote, unquote, edited and I wouldn’t have thought anything of it. But if they have the option, I’m kind of drawn to get the one that the maybe authority figure doesn’t want me to have and psychology has put a term to that and that term is reactance. And psychology defines reactance this way. reactance is an unpleasant motivational arousal, which is another way to say reaction, an unpleasant motivational arousal to offers persons rules or regulations that threaten or eliminate specific behavioral freedoms. And I think while that is kind of a very technical definition, I think it highlights a few things that are important right the reactance is this unpleasant kind of motivation is this reaction. When we feel that someone or something is taking away a freedom that is taking away a choice or limiting maybe my my range of alternatives and our I think that idea of freedom is really key when we feel like our freedom is being in infringed on, we have this internal reaction to that, again, a pre reflective reaction, kind of Who are you to tell me, I can’t do something. And it’s kind of this individual organization, maybe instead of saying like, hey, I need to speak out against that. And I remember also when I was when I was a child, is when we first started having seatbelt laws. And this is, again, fascinating to me, when seatbelt laws first came out, I remember, the reaction was negative for many people. You can’t tell me what I can and can’t do inside my car, even though it was proven that wearing your seatbelt was safer. And now it’s kind of you know, that one has passed, we’ve all maybe realized and accepted, hey, it is smarter to wear your seatbelt than not. I remember when those they weren’t always laws on the books. And when those became laws, people had a reaction to it, even though it was good for them to do it.
And so we have this kind of psychological reaction, when we think a freedom is is is being infringed upon. I think that’s one way to look at this experience. And one way to think in our own lives, when we have this, you know, when we have this pre reflective desire to do something, because someone said we couldn’t, it’s a good idea to maybe stop right there and say, Whoa, am I am I having this because I’m feeling like some of my freedom is being taken away. And, and we’ll explore me what that means. But I think also along with this, the apostle Paul has actually a lot to say about this experience. Because in many ways, the law given to us by God also did the same thing. The law given us, to us by God has has occurred or are incurred the same reaction, this reactance. And, and Paul kind of highlights this in in Romans seven. He He’s making the distinction that the law itself is not sinful, right? He’s trying to help the reader understand that. But he also is, is maybe helping us understand that, that I wouldn’t have known what, and he uses coveting as the example. I wouldn’t have known what coveting was, if the law had not said to me, You shall not covet. But once I have learned what coveting is, whoa, now I now I, I can recognize that that’s happening. Not necessarily that now I just want to go out and cover it more because COVID is a really interesting reaction, right? COVID is another one of those pre reflective desires. You don’t wake up and premeditate coveting, right, you know, wake up and say, You know what, today, I’m going to covet my neighbor’s car. I’m just going to no one can stop me. But you might find yourself seeing your neighbor and a brand new car, and you’re jumping into your early nine to an early 90s. Still very effective Honda. And you might be like, Oh, I want that. Right. You you you feel that? And I think what Paul’s saying is, we we wouldn’t even maybe know how to put words on that if we didn’t have the law. But just because we had the law doesn’t mean we stopped covering. Alright, just because Parental Advisory stickers were put on CDs didn’t mean up. Well, now, kids don’t buy them anymore. And just because we have the law you shall not covet doesn’t mean Oh, well, we just won’t cover it anymore. check that off. Because coveting and those other things happen before we before we contemplate them right before we and then we have to then take the time after that experience to say wow, where did that come from? One thing that Paul says that I think we would need to unpack a little more as he says right, he says, sin seizing the opportunity and the commandment produced in me all kinds of covet toughness, which is a tough word to say.
But, but even in that verse, I think we can it can be a little tricky because when we say sin seized an opportunity and produced in me, it almost we can read that. And we can separate sin maybe too far from ourselves. But I think in this experience, we have to realize the culpability that we have, right? The part that we play, that sin is not isn’t this outside force that somehow swoops in, and we gotta, we have to just kick it out. But that is coming from us, right? It’s coming from our heart, that when we hear, hey, you can’t do this Whoo, inside of our heart, just as Whoo, I want to do that now. When we hear, you shall not covet. Sin takes that opportunity to produce in us all kinds of coveting, it doesn’t. law doesn’t take away that desire to covet. What law does is help us recognize what we have already been doing and recognize what’s wrong with that. Like, hey, it’s not healthy, it’s not good for you or good for your relationship with your neighbor, to be coveting, to be jealous of what they have. Now you can be motivated maybe by what they’ve gained, and you can be like, Oh, this makes me want to work harder or go to school. Do these things right? Like there can be a motivation there. That isn’t bad, but but the coveting the desiring is bad. And that happened before we even think about it. We don’t premeditate that. And so these experiences, one thing that I wanted to talk about reactance is that, I really think it’s an experience that helps us understand other things that we do, that are pre reflective. And we need to take the time to think about them after they happen. And to question the source. Why do I want to do this. And in psychology with reactance, they talk about that, oftentimes, we may do something just because we think the authority doesn’t want us to do it, right? Like we want to, and it’s a part of us expressing our freedom. And there are there are many aspects in in our lives where we do need to be an individual. And we do need to guard our freedom, right and use our freedom right to to be who we are. But we also need to recognize there are moments where I’m, I’m drawn to this, and that should draw me deeper into my heart to say, Hey, what’s really going on here? What’s really going on? Where is this, this desire coming from, that I’m not even thinking about, and then it happens. And also wanted to frame it in another way. And I really liked that the psychological definition of reactance talks about freedom and personal freedom, because that really is the key. We often react against people when we feel like freedom has been taken away from us. I think one of the things that Jesus is trying to teach us in the idea of what it means to lay down our own lives, is that there are moments Now, not all the time, there are different times when you have freedom and you need to use it. But there are times when you need to lay down your freedom to actually gain your life, right, you need to lose your life. You need to gain and obviously in connection with God. There are times when you need to lay down that freedom to learn from him and to be connected with him. So I hope that next time that you that you have that experience that that if when someone tells you maybe it’s a teacher, I don’t know, you know, why would teachers tell you to do things or you can’t do things or a parent, or a co worker or a boss
when you have that experience of someone telling you, oh, you can’t do this and while you feel that in your heart rise up like woman that is what I want to do. Take a moment to explore that explore where that comes from explore why you would be upset that that may be some type of perceived freedom has been taken away from you and allow that to draw you deeper into your heart to to set with God and to explore Hey, what’s really going on in here and in the center of who I am and I like to cover that up a lot. I like to hide it from our friends hide it from even myself. But God explore that with me. And and and use those opportunities and then obviously Don’t buy CDs with Parental Advisory stickers on there just bad for you. That’s the real key to this podcast. All right, we’re in the episode today again with our segment of the student becomes the teacher becomes the student. And welcome back. Matthew Todd, it’s good to be back. Our student and resident official student front of the show. Yeah, he’s official student from the show. Well, we also have, Matt, we have a guest, along with you. We do a we have the producer of Jessup. Think Brendan Stewart, who is a former student and graduate of Jessa. That’s right. Thanks for having me. Now works here in media services. Yes, I do. And slaves away as producer of Jessup think the only one who gets paid to do these podcasts. Right. So thank you for your work you’re doing on the show. We love you. I love you too. Good to give you some mic time.
Yeah, it’s good to be on this side of it. Knowing that anything that I say may or may not actually make the error, because that’s my call,
right? Yeah. You can edit it, you can edit that out. You can also edit us to make us say things we didn’t say no,
I don’t even have to edit you sometimes.
Yeah, that’s true. That just comes out. Just happens. It just happens. But I have a question. I mean, like, Matt, but Brandon, you may have to think back to times when you were in school and not to, you know, it’s not too far. Yes. Yes. In History recent graduate, right. Yeah, recent graduate. So what I want to know in this as a teacher, what do what do students really talk about when I send them into group discussion into group? Talk at your tables about this deep theological concept?
Exactly. So when they really talk about so many things, you can tell them? I think that’s against the code. Yeah.
Yeah, to help me out, you gotta help me out, because I need to have something so I can kind of throw it back at him.
I’ll give you some brief insight. It’s, it’s normally see a group of three is ideal, right? Because especially depends on who it is, you usually have one person who has a very disinterested in talking about whatever the actual content, which is very, very common. And then you have two people who are at least sort of interested, typically, if at least one of them expresses interest. The other one would be like, Oh, yeah, we’re supposed to be talking about this. We’ll talk about the Gospel of Matthew. Yeah. So one person would be like, man, I can’t believe the capture and chicken again. Or what a specific example I remember was, we should get Mark more to come see endgame with us, which we succeed. we succeed and succeed. I did. So I hate to say that. I hate to say it wasn’t fruitful. In fact,
it was fruit. So sometimes, yeah. And that and I, as a teacher, I know that sometimes these conversations aren’t on topic, but it doesn’t mean they’re bad conversations. It’s brutal. It’s still good for students to to get to know each other to maybe get to know students, they don’t know. So I’m not you know, I’m not too worried. But it is always interesting. Because then when I throw it back to the big group, and say, Oh, so what did you guys talk about in terms of, you know, doctrine of creation, or gospel, Matthew, and then everyone just stares at me? Like, like, oh, which was a total time?
I know. That’s why Normally, I tried to have like at least one answer for that one. And then you’d be like, Well, good. I will call on someone else now. Like, right,
I think it depends on the group too, because especially if you’re gonna let them pick their own groups, just with the different learning styles of all the students, some students that typically sit together may completely be three disinterested students. Oh, absolutely. Nothing. Yeah, they want to contribute. Meanwhile, like you’re serving the students that thrive in a little bit more of a small group environment, maybe who like three or four students together, and they’re going to be the ones that answer, maybe regardless, right, so it’s kind of casting, at least my opinion, I’m not an educator at the moment. But just catching are casting a large enough net that you’re able to, like really pull these answers out of the groups that want to and just know that the people who aren’t paying attention aren’t going to pay attention. I’ve got come to that, despite being in college and like, wanting to pay for his level, and just not
now this made me think though, maybe I could maybe I should have all of the disinterested students raise their hands. If you’re not interested, as carnation, raise your hand if you need to pair up with these two who are interested. So then I’ll pair
up the disinterested to maybe more more fruitful for you to ask the interested people. Okay, that’s true. That’s very true. Yeah. A lot easier to hide that
actually. Yeah, cuz I feel people be less likely to admit it. You just got to go by test scores at that point. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Hey, everyone with these tests near over segregate the classroom. Yeah, what could go wrong?
What did branwen Did you bring in a question for us?
Yeah, I did bring in a question. All right. And this is a little bit more cultural, because I know we do have three different generations kind of represented here. That I’m A lot closer to Matthew Todd being the kind of end of the millennial generation why Matthew toddy being Generation Z, Gen Z. And Mark more you being Gen X prehistoric? Yeah. The bc Yeah. Bc Yeah, Gen. But I’m sure I’ll take it. I’m curious because music is something gray is a crown of glory. Yeah. Amen. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Amen. All by myself. Right? So hi fi for anybody that didn’t hear. Back. That’s what sounds like what is the song that you feel like most symbolizes? Like your generation? Like, what was the big cultural shift? Because of this one song, at least in your opinion, which is very different than somebody else who may be a Gen X or Gen Z or Yeah, is a great question. Or wants to take that first. I
mean, I think with kind of Gen X and mine and and I’m on the I’m on, I’d be kind of like you at the moment I’m on the tail end of Gen X shark Bear Bear Talon because like millennial starts kind of in the 80s. Like, tail into the 70s was a wonderful decade. Yeah, exactly. And it was really Nirvana, who was really Smells Like Teen Spirit. I mean, when Nirvana came in, it was kind of captured the anx of Gen X, right? We were all mad. We ripped our sleeves off of our flannel shirts. We weren’t boots with shorts. I still do that when I’m mowing. So don’t don’t wait. Oh,
I suppose where you just wear the same, like gray jacket. I wear a gray suit jacket. When
I mow. I saw your vacation pictures and what you packed in that luggage? That’s
exactly the same. It is just 80. But the but yeah, it was that really fundamentally it kind of took us out of the hairband rock and into this grungier rock. And it really did I remember when that kind of came out. It was like, wow, all those bands ever listened to yesterday. They’re suddenly not cool. Yeah. And this bands cool. So it was kind of interesting to live through that. That type of cultural shift. I mean, because I’m fascinated by cultural shift. Yeah, absolutely. That would be fascinated. Yeah, like Gen Z. I mean, what is be like a post malone song
is hard to answer, because I’m not very entrenched in modern music, but that one I was thinking of would be, it’s very interesting. It’s a lot of like, the songs I know, my friends listen to a lot our songs like Africa by toto. Yeah, they’re coming back. Coming back on vinyl, too. Yeah, the two were like a thing, right? People are repressing on vinyl. Like, it’s just hilarious. I used to think that vinyl had like, someone’s gonna hate me for saying I don’t care. The nice thing I like a better sound quality. And I bought like, I spent money on these finals. And I got a record player. And then I got it. I’m like, this really does not sound any better. In fact, it’s a record player. And that’s your record players fault. Nothing right here. Here’s a broken, that’s probably sure. But uncompressed, I was like, look how beautiful. This is. I have to
hope every five minutes for that is true. It is. It’s more. It’s more like you’re a part of the tangible.
I’m not totally disenchanted. I mean, I still participate in the whole ordeal.
But that’s so that’s interesting. Like, yeah, I think maybe with Gen Z. And I’ve noticed this too, because I do a lot of summer camps. And, and I work with sound and that and and when I play songs like summer camps that are older 80s like even older than Nirvana. 80s kind of anthem rock stuff. The 1213 year olds know every word to them. Yeah, she’s crazy. And so it is interesting. Like, I think, like culture has shifted so much with the internet, because you gotta think to, like Gen X we were when when Nirvana kind of comes out in the early 90s. And it is really like the internet is it’s kind of there, but not really and like, no one’s really using it. No one’s listening to music on it. It’s through Napster. Right? Yeah, it is. Exactly. That would be another question later. Yeah. Okay. But there was a clear because everyone was listening to similar radio stations. Sure. You guys remember what radio was like you? Yeah, he just got in a car wreck. Hasn’t radio on it. So you look at that. Yeah. So yeah, I think with your generation, it’s different because you’re listening to music all over the place, and you have access to not just what some, like disc jockey is yes. Choosing to play. Yeah. But you can play anything on YouTube, Spotify, any of the streaming services. So yeah, I do see a lot more older music coming back. Which is interesting. I mean, I love it because I’m like, I love this music. So it’s also interesting that you don’t have to
own it anymore. Right? You know, you pay a subscription to the song that’s hosted somewhere else, right?
Yeah, you don’t have to buy an album. Like if you want to check out an artist. You can just listen to one song, whatever. Yeah,
yeah, I mean, I still dude. Just in case you know, the internet dies one day and I want to listen to music. I know I
buy fewer than I used to because yeah, I have access to them. But yeah, if it all goes away, it’s like, where’d
that music? I cancel my subscription. Now I have to start over again. Right? I’m still back in the DC talk era. Exactly. You’re like, okay, Brandon, for late millennials. Yeah, you say it was there? Yeah. Well, I mean, you kind of have the same with a lot of like, whatever your parents listened to, you kind of start you they almost like have to introduce you to the music a little bit, you know? And I’m gonna have people that hate me no matter what my answer is. Don’t worry about the haters. Yeah, it’s like the tail, the tail end of Generation Y. I can’t really like begin to say how much the work of YouTube and Coldplay has done especially in our worship music right? Oh, yes, everything is Oh, completely the edge
I was gonna say I’m pretty sure there’s there has to be like at like worship. Worship central calm. Yeah, you can go there and you can just buy the edge guitar pedal. And there’s I mean, if you’re gonna need this for all the worship songs, you
definitely have it. You can download it. You can download the edge. You can download the booster. Alright. Yeah, like, Yeah, I’d see that where you want to be you got your Van Halen set right here and yeah, hey, there
you go. Now we’re talking. The Yeah, that’s interesting. Like and and it really like I think you see YouTube’s influence on coal play. And then coal plays maybe influence on on kind of that mid millennial. Yeah, later millennial
cool. Yeah, plays definitely a band that’s evolved. Like with the culture, I feel like they had like, their alternative, like rockets with that, that was popular to the early 2000s. And as like, just like generation has shifted more pop like with like music that’s playing play on the radio. Yeah, they’re newer stuff. I feel like sounds more like other bands that are being played. And so whether or not they’re starting to trend or following the trend, it’s still like they’re evolving with culture. That’s why they’re still so relevant. Right? So much after they’ve started as a band when they’re first single came out for ghost stories. I
think it was and I heard it was so like, tech known for in house like, they’re going away from their core, like what’s gonna happen? And now it’s like, one of my favorite albums of all time, so right.
Yeah. Well, that was a great question, Brandon. Like, I love kind of looking at the like, kind of cultural movements. Yeah, and what causes them? And you know, for Matthew Todd, you we may not have enough time to look at what happens in your like, you almost need like distance. Yeah, historically removed, you know, to look back and say oh, yeah, when that when that post malone Song 21 pilots changed. Yeah, when when 21 pilots was singing about bleach. I mean, my my generations life. Yeah. Which Yeah, think about that’s your generation. It is. It’s my people thinking about bleach. What is happening to Paul and his generation before he even tried to just hide from Nickelback? Yeah, that’s true.
I will pause it just before we go. Just one guess as to what the song that song could be that changes it. And if it not 20 DPI that to something that I think it’d be like old town road, honestly. Oh, wow. That is had some, like it’s my own sleepy mad, but it’s had that much cultural significance.
I suppose. We will look back and was definitely like, it definitely showed the power of social media. It’s like a meme song. Right? That’s, that’s part of why I’m so powerful of social media to then move into the music industry. Like, it is fascinating. Well, hey, I learned a lot in this segment. And thank you guys for joining me on the end of this show. Hope you guys enjoyed this little easter egg at the end of this episode. Have a great week, guys. Bless you guys. Thank you for listening to Jessup. Think Be sure to follow us on Twitter at Jessup think we would love to hear your thoughts on the episode and engage with any questions you have. Our aim is to provide a framework for further reflection and deeper exploration of these important topics. You can also help the show by leaving a review on iTunes these reviews help the podcast reach new listeners. Until next time, I’m Mark Moore and this is Jessup.
If you’re interested in learning more about Jessup, please visit us at jessup.edu. William Jessup is a premier fully accredited four year Christian University in the Sacramento area offering over 60 academic programs in undergraduate and graduate studies designed to see every student equipped and transformed into the leader they are called to be as you go Don’t forget to hit subscribe and share so you never miss an episode. Thanks for joining us for Jessup think.