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Passion, Calling, and Life

Jessup Think
Jessup Think
Passion, Calling, and Life

Mark and Rex tackle the topic of vocation or calling. There are many things that can occupy our time, but what are we called to do. Finding one’s true vocation is the key to a fulfilling life. Rex and Mark will quickly note that this does not mean fulfilling our calling will be easy though.


Well, welcome to Jessup think I’m your host Mark Moore, and I’m joined by my esteemed co host. And it’s Rex Gurney. Ryan Julius Rex Gurney the third I’m gonna say every time, every time on this episode Rex, we’re gonna look at the topic of vocation. Okay. And when you start any conversation, I think it’s really important to define terms. Maybe that’s just part of, you know, the scholarship world. We’re a part of philosophical world, even, you know, it’s

always about defining terms, so much misuse of language right now that you know, right.

The only thing probably the only place in my life that I found it is not helpful is when I’m communicating with my wife. Okay. And you want to deliberately vague Yeah, you want to vague or in the middle of maybe like an argument. You don’t want to stop and be like, let’s define terms that hasn’t gone over well, in my life, I can see that I see that, especially questioning how she’s using a word right now. Is that what you mean? And then that doesn’t go well. So I usually just shut up in my patio. Yeah, we can learn we got to learn these things. We got to. But But what’s the words? So with the word, vocation, I think it’s important to it’s kind of a common word. In our vernacular, we hear it a lot, especially in the Christian community, right? You hear vocation, we also use the word occupation. And I feel like sometimes we use them interchangeably. Okay. And I think it’s important to note a difference between those two words between vocation and occupation and between vocation and a job or whatever, right? Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it seems like when it vocation comes from kind of that root word in Latin Bokhari meaning calling, so vocation is calling an occupation really does come from that root word that means to occupy your time, right, that something occupies your time work occupies your time. And those two concepts are really different. Right, right. Calling and occupying your time. And, and and not all the ways do. Our does vocation and occupation line up right in our lives. And so I think it’s, I think it’s important to kind of know, that difference between my calling, and then maybe what my current occupation is, and, and I had a, you know, in college was in a 90s, college rock band, right, you know, it was a rite of passage. Everyone had to whether they could play or not, right, yeah, whether you could play well the beautiful thing about the 90s is you needed like three chords, power chords, and just turn up the distortions. Right. And, and you had it. So but we, there was this really great because yourself, the vocations is this vocations? No, we were actually call ourselves paradigm paradigm five, because paradigm fog, cuz we were in a worldview class, and we heard paradigm and our drummer was like, Oh, that’s a good band name. So yeah, you know, it’s a mixture. Yes. So we got to use our words carefully in class, because they might be best ones coming up. That’s right, might be new, new bands, but there was a piano player at the church where we all went. And he was a great musician. And he was kind of a traveling musician throughout the 60s. And so we kind of as a band really got mentored by him and and they’re, some of the guys in the band traveled with him and a different kind of conventions and things. And he just had really good little quips and advice on being a band and, and really kind of calling and vocation and he told us one time he said, he said sometimes in the music world, is that sometimes you play to live like you just play a gig to get money to live, but sometimes you live to play and and that was just that it was interesting when he said that that difference? Yeah, there are some times when you just have to do

well, that just reminds me that old, Dire Straits song saunter to swing you ever like it, like listen to the litany of different band members in that in that fictitious band that Mark Knopfler was talking about right some of them live to play and some of them were playing to live. Yeah,

there we go. And that was his that’s always stuck with me that and translating that into life and calling like that, there are some times when maybe your vocation is at the forefront. But there are other times in life where you gotta have to do things and they may not always align right vocation and occupation may not align

with those this book that I actually Using Christian perspective class that I really wish I had read when I was in college or had come across this book like 30 years before I came across it, because I think it would have changed the way I looked at a whole lot of things. But it’s called God at work your Christian vocation in all of life by Jean Edward veeth. And one thing that that he suggests in there is that it’s possible with people and I’ve seen this happen, that vocations can turn into an occupation and occupations Yeah, turned into a vocation. Yeah. Which is just a really, really interesting concept. And, you know, I think we do a whole lot better right now, especially in the ministry with attention to burnout and things like that. Right. But I think we all know, folks, especially in Christian ministry, that that had the calling, and, you know, there’s 30 years into the ministry and the flame stayed out, or they just don’t feel the calling anymore. But you know, there have five years to go before the pension kicks in or something. Right. And, you know, yeah, you just have to sort of keep on keeping on in an administrative position when the when the callings gone, and so yeah, their vocation has just turned into an occupation. You know, and it’s really sad when that happens. I think we all seen that happen in some churches, right? But then the converse is your occupation could turn into a vocation. Right? Yeah, I’m always thought of folks. Um, for example, you know, is it possible that, you know, you just start working at a fast food place, I’ll keep this deliberately vague, and you’re flipping burgers, I know, people don’t flip burgers anymore, but deep fried chicken sandwiches, push the buttons on their butt. You know, you may just get that as minimum wage job because you can’t find anything else. And whatever, whatever. But you find once you’re there that you actually feel called to do this. And so you know, I think it’s at least theoretically possible that just working in a fast food place can start off being just a job, but can end up being a vocation, that can work both ways.

Yeah, can end up turning into that calling, now is this kind of another phrase that that is used a lot now about, about work, right? And about kind of finding out what you want to do with your life is this idea of finding your passion, right? It’s kind of been taught, you know, and I think part of it comes from, we maybe have witnessed a generation that necessarily didn’t include passion with work, it was just like, you work and just you have to do that. And maybe saw the burnout or, or just the unpleasantness or unhappiness of life. And so there was a shift in maybe culture and pop culture of like, hey, find your passion, do what you love. I was watching a recent show on Netflix, and there was a girl character, and she was studying at Columbia. And they were like, what’s your majors, like? My major is finding your passion. Like it was an actual degree at Columbia.

Sometimes I read on student evaluations, like, you know, he’s just so passionate in class about the subject matter. And I think, I don’t know if that’s like, what does that mean? I like wave my arms around, or I don’t I don’t know if that’s a good thing. I

see that I could see that. Just waving your arms around. being passionate. Yeah. But this idea of, and I think what’s funny is sometimes, more recently, when I’ve heard people talk about that, I feel like they’re actually saying, find what makes you happy. And do that for a living. And in some ways, it’s caused a disconnect between maybe passion and work right? And, and it’s caused a lot of people maybe to be paralyzed by why I can’t do that, because I’m not passionate about it, or I don’t want to do that.

Or if, for example, God calls me to do something, then that means I will feel this certain way. And exactly, and I let the feeling sort of drive the, you know, be the engine on here instead of kind of coming after the call. I struggle with that too.

Right. Yeah. So there’s a so that we can even kind of make a distinguish or difference between calling and passion. Practice possible.

Yeah, that that. I mean, ideally, they call her with each other. Right, right. Well, ideally, your occupation, your vocation and your passion are all one thing. Ideally.

Yeah. And, but I think it’s really important to note that that may not always be the case. And in some cases that may be what God has called you to is to have these different areas. The lead pastor that I work with is a full time architect. And that’s been his occupation. He has his own firm. He’s passionate about it. He felt called To be an architect, but he also felt called into the ministry and I would say his vocation. For the last 20 years, he did about 15 years. Now 25 years, he’s been about 15 years of of volunteer youth ministry. But if you ask him his calling in life, he would say to minister, okay, but his occupation and he wants to keep those separate, and he wants to keep both of them. So his occupation, his job as an architect, doesn’t distract, or doesn’t drain him from following his calling to be a minister. And, and he’s kind of purposely has both of those. And and there may be times, and he’s talked about that there may be times if one gets busier, or the calling and ministry, he may have to not be an architect anymore to pursue. But it for me, it’s been really interesting to see that, having that difference in knowing that in his job, it didn’t stop him from following his calling,

what what might be, I guess, um, another way of looking at it is that, you know, our vocation is sort of, I mean, once you find what your calling is, you know, and, and I know that we have talked about that before the podcast about how we can actually maybe have multiple callings and folded into a larger calling, or a hierarchy sort of callings. If you just look at your life as a series of like, you know, disparate events, or just, you know, jobs that you have, and you just move from job to job. Which is, frankly, what most of our graduates are going to do, honestly, right. And so I think the whole concept of vocation is even more important now than it was before, because your jobs are going to change your careers are going to change. But if you can have a vocation that sort of spans that in ties and makes, you know, just sort of gives a coherent narrative to your life.

Yeah, it does seem like the the generation of someone working a job for the same job for 30 or 40 years. It just doesn’t happen. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right. And so it does make it more important to have if we can already see this statistics and know that someone may have two or three careers in their life, exactly five or six different jobs by the time they’re 40. But they could have one vocation, or

one calling that sort of ties all that together. It certainly, you know, gives. It’s really interesting. I’m not sure that and I could be wrong. I’ve never thought of this before that that occupation gives meaning to vocation. But I do believe that vocation certainly gives meaning to occupation. Yeah, I totally do. And so if you have your, your vocation that’s portable, that means that location might be able to play out in these different jobs and different careers. Anyway, that’s just a thought.

Yeah, I think and I think it will, would help be wondering, would it helped me when I was getting out of college? Oh, yeah. Cuz, you know, there’s that pressure when you get out of college to get a job. Right, right. Money, pay back student loans. And, and there’s also the the pressure of getting a job within your field, or within your degree, right, or within your passion, recalling? Well,

it’s interesting, that book that I just previously mentioned, that I wish I had, you know, heard about or known about, or was written back when I was in college. One of the things that veeth talks about is he wants to expand the term vocation to actually speak to areas of our lives that we don’t usually connect that word with, like our vocation as a citizen or vocation as family. And I guess another way that you can look at it is expanded to the very, you know, having a vocation as a student, and I often ask my Christian perspective classes, like would it make a difference? It’s like, So would it make a difference in your college experience, if you viewed your experiences as simply preparation, or if you viewed your experiences, vocation, and I don’t think those are mutually exclusive, but right, I know that I would have paid attention a lot more to things if I had viewed my college education as vocation You know, I’m called to be a student right now here and what does that mean? Because it was just purely Well, I’m not sure what it was. I sort of ended up just adding up units and deciding I was an English major because I had to declare some Yeah. Anyway, I wish I had Facebook back then. It’s all been good because guy good, but it certainly would have changed the way looked at things,

but definitely does change when you think we mostly use the word vocation or calling when we’re talking about what we’re going to do with our life, you know, future work. And, and we often then view school and education just as a stepping stone, I may even view entry level jobs or careers as a stepping stone to what I want to do. But in some ways, it kind of makes us we live this kind of perpetual, what do

you exactly, exactly, and we’re not paying attention to what God is doing with us in what we are doing right now. And we just miss a lot. We miss a lot.

Yeah. And it’s, it’s interesting to then bring that word vocation or calling into all of these different areas of our life of our present life, right? Not just right your life. And I think it would, I mean, I would have totally changed my college to view it as a vocation is my calling. Right? I like what you said before, to would be saying, calling as a member of a family, right, your vocation as a son or daughter.

Yeah, he talks about our family relationships, vocationally. And this is the first time I’d ever heard of that. Yeah, you know, I guess I can see how and you know, you can have vocation language apply to, for example, a marriage because we all know that might you know, making a good marriage Work is work, we even use that word like, you’re right. It doesn’t work for me anymore, or whatever. Yeah, but we all know that, yes, hard work. So at least I can, I can understand some of that language there. And I think I can understand it when you talk about maybe vocation as a parent, because I think, you know, some folks, I guess, can feel a sense of, I’m called to have a family, you know, right. And I totally, but he wants to expand it even further than that. And he talks about vocation, as you mentioned, as a child. And that was the first time I had ever thought about that. And I’m still not sure I know what to think about that. Right? These other relationships are at least sort of, you know, chosen relationships, right? I mean, you can choose to have children, you choose your spouse, but you know, nobody asked me. I was born and so what is it? What does it mean? And I think it there’s, there’s some real, positive things that can happen in thinking of that occasionally. I think that’s a really deep thought, but I just never thought of that before.

Yeah, that idea of vocation as a child, as a child, what do you think it might, you know, if I, if I viewed myself are like my status as a son of my parents, and viewed that not just as something that just happened, and I’m stuck with it or right, but viewed it as a calling, then I would think okay, then what? What, as the role of son, what am I to do? Right? How am I to respect and respond to my parents? How am I even as as as you grow older, right? And as you become a parent yourself, you’re still have that vocation? Oh, yeah. I have a son or daughter and what is that? Yeah, how

old is the son or daughter of someone you know, and I’ve often thought myself because my parents I was in my 20s my parents died in a spell a long, long time. So I’ve wondered if you know, I’m off the hook vocationally. Because, you know, there’s there’s no one to work that vocation out with, but I’m not sure that veeth would let me off the hook right that Yeah, maybe I don’t know the way I speak about the inheritance that gave me maybe the way I speak about the way I was grown up maybe right you know, your the way I speak about them to my own children, you know, you know, maybe I still have a calling with that

sometime. And again, I think this conversation really important to expand how we use vocation that we often think vocation just in my job, but yeah, vocation as a student, if I started to view my current situation as a calling, not as a stepping stone, right, then I would be more intentional, be more engaged. And as a my calling as a son or daughter.

Well, the calling thing is really interesting anyway, because you know, I guess both of us in some sense are like, you know, have have been in what some people will call vocational Christian ministry. Yeah, no, I

say it all the time. I’m a full time paid Christian. And I say the same thing.

I totally say I’m a professional Christian. Which you know, can go off in some weird, right? Yeah, exactly that but I know that what I thought my calling was in word God was going to take me When I first went to seminary and envision what kind of professional Christian ministry I would or would not have, has gone in very, very different directions. I’m nowhere near anywhere I imagined to be back in 35 years ago, yeah. When I was when I felt called, I felt, yeah, I felt, I felt a sense of vocation. But, you know, we were going to be on the mission field. I mean, that was gonna happen. And then, you know, things happen differently, right? And I can see God’s providential hand in that, and it’s all good. And I think that same calling, still was on our lives. It’s just that, you know, I guess you could be on the foreign mission field of what we used to call is Baptist for mission field. But then I pastored, inner city church in Oakland, and we had like, 20 different birth countries and people that regularly attended the congregation, it was like, so yeah, that’s really yeah, the same thing is in Oakland, California, instead of you know,

we’re right, somewhere in New Guinea. That was where all the missionaries were from now.

We probably wouldn’t have 20 different birth countries in the church. Anyway, yeah, that’s true. Maybe this was even more international ministry. Yeah, it’d been, you know, where we were, and so on.

Yeah, and calling is, is something that has a consistent string, but also changes and develops and grows as you change and develop and grow and as you experience, write new things and as as your life unfolds, that calling maybe helps keep it together, but it can go Yeah, in a lot of different directions where you thought it was going to go and there. You know, when I graduated college, if you gave me 100 chances to say where I would end up, Rocklin, California wouldn’t have made it at all because I didn’t even know Rocklin California existed. I didn’t. I didn’t know about William Jessup university, I knew I wanted to teach on a college level. I knew I felt called to teach on a college level. William Jessup University didn’t exist when you were in college. Hey, I was a Christian. I was a Christian college right? Yeah, San Jose. But I didn’t know those. I just had that general right call. Right and, and I followed that. And that led me to because I had that maybe primary call. And this is something where as a writer we’ve I’ve talked about on the podcast before name Adrian bond calm. And he talks about these different callings in our lives that we will have several vocations at once he calls them modes of existence. And he stresses that to bring all of our different modes of existence together to integrate them is the is the key of the spiritual life and just life in general to but to integrate them will mean that there’s a hierarchy, that you probably have a primary call, and then all other callings are subordinate to that. And I can maybe look back and now know, when I graduated, that primary call in my life that I felt was teaching on a college level. So I knew that I was going to have to take different steps. So I knew graduate student was going to be a calling in my life. But that calling was subordinate to the primary call of teaching. And but I had to take those steps, I had to be intentional. It wasn’t just gonna happen when I graduated college, but I didn’t know where and how and when that would happen. And I had an internship right after college, and then saw program down at Talbot and jumped into that jumped into ministry, did those still had that calling to teach on a college level, but I didn’t know but I had to engage in my calling as a student. During that time I met my wife so I have a new calling in my life, calling his husband, we had our first son now calling his father and and I had to integrate those and, and kind of still push forward with that primary call. Of that the primary call I felt of teaching on a college level when I graduated college. And when I first stepped into a classroom, it was almost 10 years before I stepped into a college classroom and taught and but that whole 10 years I can look back and see how God even when I couldn’t see it right you know, so all of these added up right? Right that it moved to that and so and I think also bringing up and this something Vaughn calm brings up a lot when you bring up all those other callings too that happened along the way and are still a part of my life. Calling as a husband, calling you As a father, one thing that we can also get in the bad habit of is putting our primary calling right. And that’s from ministry, widows and ministry, orphans, and right all the time when that gets out of whack that you still have to realize, within my calling as a college professor, my calling as husband is just as as strong, my calling as father. And if I neglect those callings, I will have a disintegrated life and have a dissonant life. And I won’t be able to actually pursue my calling, because I’m not paying attention to the individual callings, the individual modes of existence. You know, sometimes I wonder

about the sort of difference between specific callings and sort of a general calling in sometimes, I guess I would assume that specific is better than general. But I think it might be helpful sometimes to think of it the opposite way. Because I know so many people, such as students whose people I mean, in all walks of life that, you know, I don’t know what my calling is, you know, I’ve taken all these Strength Finders I’ve taken, you know, all this stuff to find out what my calling is. And I just haven’t, you know, I’ve not had a burning bush experience. I just, I’m waiting for this voice from God to tell me exactly what I’m supposed to do. But I know what has helped me a lot in the fact that I have worn a lot of different hats through life. And I actually did not start off to be a college professor. I mean, that was not something that I even envisioned, I don’t know. Anyway, I mean, I’m very grateful for the way God has worked in my life. But I’m not sure that that was a something I really sense when I was in college, but I did since the fact that sort of the earth calling or the you know, Primal calling that sort of underlies any specific calling is is the call to be a disciple. Right, you know, and how that plays out in everything that I do. I mean, it doesn’t play out. Well, a lot of times. I’m not perfect at all, at all. But But you know, that that is a calling that that all of us that are Christian have. And I think if that’s taken seriously, it may sort of open your eyes to some of these specific callings. I think sometimes some folks get it backwards. Yeah.

Yeah, that’s so important. guy named Mark Talbot. He’s a philosophy professor at Wheaton. He wrote a paper on that and he stressed that all of us as as human beings, and then particularly all of us as Christians have a common vocation. Right. And, and we do have to respond to that common vocation. And that common vocation then guides are specific locations or specific callings. But that common vocation to be a disciple of that right to love God. And, and that can be Yeah, that other I like that, that common vocation. Speaking of that, I

have a book in my hand right now. And this was actually recommended to me by a student. And so I put it on my little Amazon buy lists, and it’s sat there for like, two years, I finally have once again, I wish I had actually read this a while ago, but it’s called visions of vocation by a guy named Steven Garber. And the subtitle is common grace for the common good. And and you know, he kind of like veeth wants to look at life, vocationally. But he asked some really interesting questions here. One of the questions is that is at least in the part of the book that I’ve read so far, which is about a third of it. Will you be able to know the world and still choose to love it? God calls you into something and then you find out oh my gosh, you know, there’s politics everywhere, and oh, my gosh, you know, and that can happen whether it’s in a in any sort of job ministry, secular anything. Can you realize that, you know, we live in a broken world, and that stuff’s going to happen and that all of our you know, perfectionism that we have about how our callings are supposed to, you know, play out I mean, if God calls me to do it, isn’t the road going to be smooth enough? What’s gonna happen to me? Right? And he asked the question, will you be able to know the world or I guess maybe know, your calling, and still choose to love it, even when there’s sort of roadblocks and stuff there. And part of the advice he gives is learning to just pay attention to what matters and what doesn’t. Mm hmm. Yeah. Which of course is easier said than done right.

But so important, especially for ministry to like, you feel a calling to ministry and it kind of feel like ministerial callings. feel like they have like an extra

intensity research I grew up in, there was like, you know, and I just accepted the language because it was the language was used, you know, there were different different ways that you would respond to the invitation. I grew up Baptist and we’d have altar calls. And I’m not knocking that I went right pastored I would give, not all the time, but I would give altar calls, I think anyway. But, you know, you could come forward to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, you can come forward for baptism, if you you know, accepted Jesus in your room or something, or you can come forward for rededication this guy that would come forward every Sunday morning to rededicate his life. And all of us were like, make sure you well, but it was like, you know, wow, what did he do every week? I have another proud anyway, anyway. But But, you know, sort of the one one of the most important things that you would respond to is the your call for special services called special service. And I look back at this now. And that’s just a really strange term in a way because that implies all sorts of things. Because we all know what Special Services right? You’re called, you know, to be a missionary to be a pastor or whatever, whatever. Right. But that does imply just with the language, that you know, some of us have special vocations. And others of us have less special vocations. And of course, that’s not what it is at. All right.

That’s not right is at all. And then you you feel the call to special service. And you get into a special service. And then, oh, it’s not all fun and games. It’s not all happy. In that, yeah. For me, that quote comes back like can you see the world? And

that will play out on whatever God’s called you to be? Yeah, whatever. Right? flipping burgers that

Yeah, any any vocation you can have in your mind? Oh, it’s gonna be so great. And that’s, too I think a lot what happens in college you have I want to do this with my life. Right? And then you actually get that job. And then you realize, Oh, yeah, there are some aspects that that don’t make me happy.

So of course, we will just you know, get another job. Right. Right.

That we sort of deal with it or we you know, in the in the Christian world, we don’t feel called anymore. Yes, we feel relief, feel released.

Calling goofy videos about you know, 20 different ways that people fire people in the ministry. Of course, you know, that sort of life. We release you to a greater Yeah, we have released you find your passion to find your passion somewhere else. Not here. Yeah. So So Stephen Garber actually has this quote that I just really, really love about vocations. that I think would apply to, to all of us, he says, you know, he’s talking about things that can go wrong, not just in your vocation, but in life, because, you know, life has its ups and downs, it has his joys it has its sorrows. And then he says, He says, The story of sorrow is not the whole story of life. There’s also wonder and glory and joy and meaning in the vocations that are ours. There’s good work to be done by every son of Adam, and daughter of Eve all over the face of the earth. flowers to be grown songs, to be sung bread, to be baked justice, to be done mercy to be shown beauty to be created good stories, to be told houses to be built technologies to be developed fields to farm and children to educate all day, every day. There are both wounds and wonders at the very heart of life, if we have eyes to see and seeing and paying attention is where vocations begin. I just love that quote, that is so good.

And, and it’s this, again, just an important topic that, that that calling isn’t just something you’re trying to find in college, but it’s something you’re going to deal with your whole life. Right, right and trying to understand what God is calling you to and in your work and outside of work. And, and all of those things kind of come together. And that is where you start to find your calling. That’s where callings come together. And it’s just really important and it’s conversation that we can continue to have and we’ll we’ll have in an upcoming episode. But as we kind of land the plane here, want to transition from this really deep moment that we just had just into just into a small segment that we can kind of do here just it’s called getting to know you just and I thought I’d make it kind of topic specific but but but maybe not on the side of calling Okay, just on the side of occupation or work. Okay, so getting to know you what was the first paying job you ever had? Oh,

my parents owned a couple businesses when I was growing up and basically from the time I was I say seven but it hadn’t been eight or nine it was still when I was a kid. I was an elementary school actually. So you was like, no child labor laws. Anyway, it was like, so you can work in our, you know, family businesses and we can pay you or you can work in our businesses and we won’t pay you once again. What do you guys, I actually was working and getting my little, you know, probably they would have been arrested if people knew how much they didn’t pay me. But whatever, whatever I was, I was working, I guess paying jobs from when I was in elementary school. Oh, wow. What were the businesses what kind of well is so my my father had an elaborate you know, who would expect a little white kid right anyway, now my, my father owned a laboratory. He was in the uranium business, and a NASA office and my mother owned a motel. And so I grew up in a motel on Route 66 in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And so I cleaned the motel rooms. So at the time, I was eight or nine years old, you know, especially on the weekends, because obviously, I was going to school and then in the summer so I can make I can make a mean nurses corner on a bed. Anyway, but you know, I felt I had no choice. Yeah. And looking back at it, you know, it was probably a good thing, actually. You know, yeah.

Well, there we go. I grew up in Indiana. And so I guess my first time I got paid for doing work, one of the my grandpa was a farmer. And he had fields my my house was surrounded by fields on all four sides. I mean, there was a street you know, no country road going in, in the middle of that. And he would pay my brother and I to walk out in the fields with a with a little hoe, and we would get the weeds we just we didn’t and I don’t know if it really needed to be done or he was just trying to give us something to do. And this is before the internet before Netflix. So you know, the summer times we really built your stories to tell did it and I still look back at helping him on the farm mostly probably getting in his way and jumping in the grain trucks and pushing my brother underneath the grain that’s falling into the truck and helping them put it in the know. Yeah, we were always you know, the top of the silo. You didn’t go out there and mess around. But we could we goof around in the back of the it was like a 1954 GMC truck. Wow.

1950s Willys pickup. Oh, that’s great. Yeah, we painted a psychedelic colors. I don’t know why he let us do that. But anyway. You know, I mean, late 60s 70s. Yeah, fair game. It was an explosion of color. We didn’t even know what a hippie was. But we figured you know, they painted cars.

So we did it. That’s all yeah, that’s all you know. Well, hey, thanks again, for sure. Not only being on the show, but being being a co host. It’s a real privilege and a pleasure. Looking forward to more conversations. Thank you for listening to Jessup. Think Be sure to follow us on Twitter at Jessup think we would love to hear your thoughts on the episode and engage with any questions you have. Our aim is to provide a framework for further reflection and deeper exploration of these important topics. You can also help the show by leaving a review on iTunes these reviews help the podcast reach new listeners. Until next time, I’m Mark Moore and this is Jessup.

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