In Part 2 Mark and Rex zoom in on the spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius Loyola and his Examen prayer.The pair explore how the practices of a 16th century Spanish monk are more relevant today than ever.
Welcome to Jessup think I’m your host, Mark Moore
and your co host Rex Gurney.
There we go. And this is part two of our series on ancient Christian practices, right. And I’m really excited today because we get to kind of dive into a couple of these practices, particularly kind of going to kind of spend the episode with St. Ignatius,
right. And he’s someone that actually has informed the devotional life of both of us and so right.
Yeah, really has and so it’ll be nice. And so we kind of want to, you know, connect with, like, on last episode, we kind of talked about, yeah, what had informed our spiritual lives, the way disciplines came in the way these ancient Christian practices kind of spoke to us. And particularly Ignatius as spiritual exercises. Right, right. You know, we’re a part of that, but I think it’d be great to for the listener to kind of, because we maybe have heard about St. Ignatius. You know, probably if you’ve been in the church, someone has maybe said it, you may have even heard, like the ignition exercise, especially if you’ve dabbled in disciplines, right. But we might not have kind of that backstory,
and you know, stuff about church history is actually kind of confusing anyway, because one of the early early early church fathers was St. Ignatius, too, right? That’s
what Yeah, you’re like Now which one? Which one? So, so, Rex, tell us which one are we talking about?
We’re talking about Ignatius, number two, not Ignatius. There’s about 1500 years between the two of them, right, actually. And so Ignatius of Loyola is a Spaniard. And we were actually talking about this right before the podcast started that if you want an image in your head of the young, saying, well, he wasn’t a saint. He had their young, Ignatius Loyola, um, think of the Princess Bride and Eagle Montoya because that actually was what the Loyola wanted to be born in a fairly wealthy Spanish family, kind of minor nobility. And he spent most of his early, early adulthood or, um, as sort of a co ta in the Spanish court. And he was one of those guys, you know, looked good ladies, man. All are really felt. really had a high opinion of himself. Yeah.
I also read in his kind of a biography that he was of short stature. Exactly. So you appreciate that. I appreciate I aligned with Okay, St. Ignatius, and maybe even more vain. I don’t Yeah, that’s true.
I understand, actually, to talk about his vanity. One thing that kind of was a major turning point in his life. It’s sort of turned this vein cotpa into the founder of the Jesuits, actually, was the fact that he was at the siege of Pon Plummer. I think the French were actually be French. Yeah. And he was actually one of the main folks officers that the defenders of Pamplona were rallying around, and at least that’s the story I’ve heard.
Right. And this is around 1521, certain length
and, and his leg is shattered by Cannonball. Oh, and Yeah, that’ll slow you down pretty powerful. And it really did slow him down. And actually, I guess it’s providential that is slowed him down, because he ends up surviving that but he goes into a long convalescence, basically at his sister’s house, which is interesting, right. Yeah. And before we get to the only reading material that was available to him in his long convalescence, and he understand he wanted to actually get better and get back in the game, that was his whole purpose. Right with this. He had no idea that God was going to get a hold of him.
Yeah, he was gonna get the same title later, man. He had no I was looking for other
title. He was looking for other things. Exactly. And he actually had his leg re broken and reset, because he felt that it wasn’t healing, right. And then even after that, because there was a protrusion in one of the bones and it kind of poked out a little bit on the skin and he was so vain that he actually without Anastasia. Yeah, anesthesia had to hope he saw it off, if you can just imagine that so that he would look at entice. I mean, literally. It’s like, this is the kind of guy we’re talking about. Right, right. Wow. Yeah, that’s all you can say. Yeah, that’s not me. No, but he’s looking for reading material because he’s bored. He’s in bed, right? Yes. He’s bedridden. Yeah, exactly. He can’t do anything. And so the only two books really that are in his sister’s house are a life of Christ and the life of the saints. And so he reads them because that’s the only reading material there. And, you know, God starts getting a hold of him. And he ends up, you know, wanting to be in sort of late medieval terminology kind of a night for Jesus instead of a night for the Spanish crown. Yeah. And, and that really, that really changes things for him. But of course, you can’t start at the top, he understands he has to start at the bottom. And so he kind of goes on a, on a, I don’t know, he sort of does a hermit thing for a while, and ends up taking his sword, which is a big deal for him taking his sword to Montserrat, to the monastery of Montserrat, which is kind of outside of Barcelona, and just offering the sword up, and just basically retreating to a cave, the Cave of mon Raisa, or for a period of time, and that’s when he first starts reading the spiritual exit first starts writing the spiritual exercises, which is possibly the second most famous thing he’s known for, besides being the founder of the Jesuits, right. And even after that, he realizes he needs to give some education. And so he understands that he doesn’t even know Latin. And so he has to learn Latin. And so he makes himself as a, I guess, a personal humiliation, or attend school with kids with just little kids learning language learning is like 20 years old, and anybody in the classroom. And he does that for months, basically, to to
such a turnaround from Oh, having your legs re broken and shaved off so it looks nice and tight.
And then he decides he wants to go to the Holy Land, because why not? Right, right. Yeah,
at that time, it was everybody, right?
And so he actually goes there on his own and wants to, I think, become a Franciscan, but the Franciscans literally kick him out of the hole. So he has to go back and train. And then he goes to the university, he gets kicked out of one university, he’s put in jail, some I mean, it’s just a really crazy kind of thing. Yeah. And not a straight line. No, it’s not a straight line with him. And then he ends up going to the University of Paris, and that’s where everything changes. He gets some companions around him, and they formed the Society of Jesus, they get that recognized, sort of officially by the Catholic Church, and some of those initial friends of his like Francis Savior, and people like that end up being famous in their own right, right. And it all kind of takes off from there.
Now sort of amazing story. It really is, it really is, is just fascinating, because when you just hear St. Ignatius, and you just maybe know his the exercises. It’s so so much more interesting to know the backstory. Exactly. This is not someone who started out as St. Ignatius and
he actually started off thinking about what ends up becoming the Spiritual Exercises pretty early on in that right sessions. Right. He, he was still in process while he starts to write it, which is good for people like me. Yeah. You know, currently in process as I’m reading it,
yeah, who’s still in process? And I
think that’s one thing that makes it so powerful that, you know, through the analysis made it so powerful for almost anybody that’s actually really tried to go through it
any seems to have kind of captured the, the zeal he had as a young man, it does just get transferred, right? It doesn’t go away, it gets transferred to a spiritual life. Exactly. Exactly. And I think it’s just such a good way to express it. Because a lot of times, I think, now we we approach spiritual life as Oh, that’s my old life. And my spiritual life. I’m a completely different person or that right, but he still kind of brought in that personality that that zeal and then applied it to
which which, of course we all do, anyway.
Right. Right. So with the, with the exercises, can we go? Let’s go a little bit deeper in I’m sure. So I’m actually not
an expert on the spiritual exercises. And actually, the first time that I tried to do them, I was a failure at the spiritual exercises. And so what what this is, is basically, it first sort of starts off with something if you ever wanted to join the Jesuits, they would make you do and then it ends up being just something that is sort of open for anybody and everybody, you don’t have to be Catholic. Many Protestants have found a lot of spiritual succor in these two, it certainly has has been instrumental in my faith journey lately. But it’s supposed to be basically kind of a four week retreat, where you just basically immerse yourself in the Scriptures, which is really interesting, the whole thing. It’s just very bibble bibble centric. Yeah. Scripture centric, right? It really is. And just meditating on the scriptures and actually immersing yourself in the scriptures and just sort of going through a rhythm, right? Sort of a four week rhythm. But most of us, you know, can’t go away for four weeks and do this and have this rational director who knows how to help us in that. And so
I know, my wife
might be like, Where are you going?
Before we Exactly, exactly. So, for example, the version of the exercises that I’m going through right now, basically, I think it’s like 6045 weeks. Okay, yeah, thing like that. So the weeks aren’t actually a calendar, things are just sort of movements. Yeah. And the first one actually, is where you just spend time thinking about God’s blessings on your life and incur in creation and just just being grateful, just realizing how much God has done for you and, and God’s activity in this world and in nature, and in people and in history, and, and particularly in your life and your relationships, and just just being grateful for that, realizing God’s action and present. And that’s sort of preparation for the first week, right. And the first week is where it really starts getting right. Interesting, because the first week is kind
of so you were kind of talking about, like, preparation preparation before you even get to what is called, quote, unquote, first week, exactly.
There’s weeks of preparation before, it gets really confusing. So
when you hear weeks with spirit drives, don’t think normal weeks and also,
you know, the word Spiritual Exercises is kind of a, you know, anachronistic sort of thing to it’s not like, you know, biblical yoga or right, you’re
not actually like stretching. Exactly, exactly. Maybe we could do that. Maybe we could have our own like, I think spiritual exercise exercises
and yoga. In the park
or something, people come to the park, all wearing suit jackets.
Yeah. And maybe we can,
Hey, I’ll put it in our idea. But
anyway, the first week, you ended up basically doing almost like a one at the first week, you’re looking at all the goodness in God’s creation and in your life. And then the next thing that you really need to get in touch of is your own sin. Yeah. And the ways that you fall short of God’s glory and God’s God’s goodness in his, his, his his will for your life. And you spend a long time on that. Yeah. And then after that, on the second week, you just get into the life of Jesus. And so the second week is just basically immersing yourself in the gospels, and immersing yourself in the stories. Do you
think people on give they have, like an interest in the exercise, and maybe they get to that official first week, and it becomes this focus on sin? thing? A lot of people halt? They’re like it? Well,
yeah, actually. Because if you’re going to take it seriously, you have to take it serious, right? And the first time I ever did it, I didn’t take that seriously. Yeah, I really didn’t. But I decided, I’m going, I’m doing it now doing the Spiritual Exercises now. And so I figured, you know, I need to take it seriously. They don’t do it. And so that means I actually have to take this sin in my life. And in my past, seriously, and honestly, taking it seriously. It got pretty brutal. It really did. But that’s the point of it. Right? And then, of course, you know, once you just admit these things, and really confront these things, yeah. And not try to even take your memory around these things, or excuse these things, or, or I’m a different person now or something like that, then then, then you can go forward because it just aren’t these roadblocks in your path. Yeah, there’s not this unfinished business. It’s really psychologically and spiritually brilliant. The way that Ignatius actually works this out. Yeah.
I think maybe sometimes we, in our current, like, kind of time, we don’t maybe focus on her sin. Because we have we have maybe a little bit of a because we still talk about sin a lot in the church, evangelical church, all the other people so yeah, yes, yes, definitely other people outside of the church for sure. But we maybe kind of have like a little bit of a bad taste in her mouth from kind of Jonathan Edward. Right. Right. And so we we don’t I kind of our messages now are more inspirational. Right. And I understand
And that was that was a good kind of transition from from Jonathan Edwards. And now he has something to add and offer but, but it was and so I think Yeah, for me, when I first was getting into it, I was like, oh, man, spend this much time on my sin. I want to, like look at God’s love and His grace. Exactly. But I do think Yeah tilling the ground, though, right? It really you have to and you do have to seriously and it’s not a it’s not a such a warm is not for me. It’s not I’m a terrible person, right? Hey, look at this in my life like yeah, like this is something that maybe I continually come back to consistently pops up, right. And, man, this is a time to let’s let’s deal with it and it brings you to a point of, you know, remorse and asking for repentance, because and that’s kind of hard, you know? Right. you confront it. Yeah. But you have to actually really feel sorry. Right? And that’s those are two different things. Yeah, it is. And there’s so much in our life that we’re like, yeah, I’m sorry, but right. Not sorry. Really. Right. And to spend more time contemplating it does not meant to bring you down? No. But it is meant to make you honest. Yeah. Make you honest.
And so the second official week is just getting into Christ’s life. And it’s very Christmas centric, and just immersing yourself in in in the stories really immersing yourself into the stories, the sounds, the smells, the colors, the
you’re there. That’s, that starts to make evangelicals a little scared.
But no, it is so important. It really is. I mean, we have to use your imagination, right? But it really makes it makes things come come alive. Yeah. And then week after that is Christ’s passion. And you spend a long time basically, you know, yeah, on that. And then the final week is really, you know, Jesus’s resurrection, and, um, what that means in your life and the new life, and then you start to, you know, there’s been a lot of navel gazing, you know, in the last few weeks here with this, and your focus is out, out into the world go out. And it’s really interesting, because that focus is even more in focus, because of all the stuff that you’ve had to do to get there. Hmm. You know, and right. It’s, it’s really powerful stuff. It really is. and stuff I was obviously never introduced to when I was growing up Baptist and stuff I was afraid of, it’s like, if he’s me know, what’s this gonna do is this is great stuff. But honestly, it’s nothing but Jesus stuff. That’s all it is.
Yeah, when you really look at the weeks or guide, it is christocentric I’m writing to worry very much in and understanding maybe where we fit in and where sin and what takes us away from from being able to be like Christ. Be, I think to a lot of times when when you hear and you maybe listen to a podcast about his projects are just like, oh, man, I want to try it. And you see, maybe you Google it, or you try it. And, and sometimes, and I did this too now now with the exercises per se, because because you were a helpful guide for me on pointing me to, to write guides. But for me, it was kind of Book of Common Prayer, right? You know, I was like, oh, man,
this is one or the other ad, right?
And then and and then when you kind of grabbed the book comprare if you first get to it, you’re like, this is kind of confusing, because it’s not all it’s not linear, per se. It’s like, Oh, you check here for this read. And we’re really big on the shirts
here is probably
Yeah, and so it was a big learning curve for me. So I and I end up finding a guide that helped me. And that’s what I think is so important for for approaching these type of exercises is finding the right is the right
book. Actually, I actually went last last fall, I actually spent a weekend at the Jesuit Retreat Center in Los Altos, which is a beautiful thing on the hill up there. And it was just sort of an introduction to you know, this stuff, and it was a, it was like a firehose, pretty much right. But it really, it really helped me be able to approach at least the spiritual exercises, but you know, there’s a whole lot more to, to ignatian spirituality than just the spiritual exercises. That’s what he’s known for. But there’s some other stuff that’s very, very powerful, and that a lot of people use, and one of them is the examine, and I know, mark that you have some experience with that. And so why don’t you help us understand what that is? Yeah.
And it kind of is is something that Ignatius used within the exercises, right? It flows out into it without the the Yeah, you can do it on on your own. And really, it is just a it’s a it’s a way to approach prayer. It gives you some some steps. And and I think it’s really important to kind of approach it that way of like, Okay, how cuz I think I’ve talked to a lot of students, man, and that camps in and we talk about prayer a lot in the in the church, but we often don’t, and even when we define it, and there are great definitions of it. Hey, it’s just a conversation. With God, I think sometimes then people have like, Okay, then what am I gonna say,
to talk about this conversation
about conversation with a person? Maybe I haven’t met? Like, you’d be the same thing. Like, okay, I need to know.
So So should I start? Why is it called the examine? And what is it a conversation about Mark?
Yeah. And the examine is really about you’re kind of examining the day, you’re examining yourself and your experiences in the day. And and and it really is, I think it’s, it’s best used as that kind of a daily look. And, and so we can just kind of quickly go through the kind of the five steps. And again, just like the four weeks, there are entry and outro steps that aren’t the actual steps. Right. But I, but it’s hard.
I mean, I have to have my 10 minutes.
Exactly. Oh, darn. And this is something that yeah, that that is like, once you know, the steps, you could do it in 1015 minutes. It’s, it’s something that it could give you a guide right? To a rhythm of Yeah, once you get into rhythm of it. And and, and the first one is, and I’m actually using one of my the books that was a guide for me is called the examine prayer, ignition wisdom for our lives today by Timothy Gallagher. And, and he he kind of outlined it this way that was really helpful for me. So you kind of start with a with what he calls transition. transition from life to
your hairy to where you are
examining your day. And it’s it’s so important, because I often like within within church, right, we talk about quiet time, and it’s like, yeah, you’re busy, busy, busy, and then you sit down and it’s like, okay, now I must pray. Right, right. I mean, it’s like anything, you’re busy at work, and then you pull into the driveway, and you’re like, now I’m home right now this, you know, and, and so this transition is becoming aware of the love of God of which he looks at us with. So before I even go into this prayer, before we go into looking at my day, I’m just gonna recognize, hey, God loves me the loving gaze of your life, I’m gonna recognize that and help that transition me into this prayer. And step one is very, very similar to the pre weeks of, of the exercises, in the sense that it is gratitude. It’s looking at your day, and noting what God has done for you that day. Right. And that’s just so
important. I am about 10 years old, gosh, I’ve been doing this now for longer than 10 years, probably about 15 years. I just got convinced one day that I was just a really cynical person. Because, you know, our spiritual gifts should get to us and and, and I did not like that person that was cynical all the time. And so I started keeping a gratitude diary. And I’ve done it now for about 15 years. And I have all these volumes. Yeah, that’s I’ve kept and you look back on it. And you know, I just picked one thing at least every day that I’m grateful for. And and it’s amazing. It’s just amazing. I don’t you know, I’m
not helpful. Yeah. And that’s such good advice to like, as you’re examining your day, it doesn’t have to be like okay, I woke up at 630 now in my write me up. He gave me bro like, but
yeah, let’s not reading God, your diary, right
is looking at me and one or two things during the day, because often we don’t take that time to just stop and say, Wow, what did God do for me today, man that was such that 15 minutes was such a blessing from God or the way God spoke to me through that conversation with a friend. And just being able to recognize that is is so important. So to start, which I which I feel like is a common theme with Ignatius it is this idea of gratitude of before doing anything, recognizing what God has done, right. And that’s, it’s such good. I mean, in my prayer life for most of life, it is, hey, God, you know, thank you for the day. And then I’ve got a list. I need you to help me here here. And to spend a good amount of time on looking at my day and be like, wow, look what God has done. Right?
It’s amazing. When you do that.
Yeah. And then step two, you move to petition, you move to asking God, and again, it’s not petition of like, Oh my god, I need a new car. It’s it’s petition of asking God for insight and strength. Within this prayer of examine, right, like God, as I’m, as I’m moving into this prayer, I want you to help me see right what you have what you’ve been trying to teach me today, right? What you What lessons I can learn from the events of the day? And so it’s it’s not, it’s not the time to pull out your list yet, right? It’s the time to actually ask God, hey, give me insight in this time of prayer actually makes it a conversation. It really does. It really does. And, and I think what’s interesting about having five steps, actually, if you add the two transitions, seven steps, right? It makes this prayer long, longer and more robust than just a quick ham. It’s now these are these are phases, right? These steps of, I’ve have gratitude, God give me now insight into what you want to show. And, and step three, really is that time of, of reviewing the day with God, right. Looking for times during the day when you had a stirring of your heart or thought of God?
Or the opposite, because right.
Exactly, yeah. And that’s the, in those times when, man Yeah, we’re where God was not. On your mind, he sort of uses terms that that
I certainly didn’t grew up with things like desolation and consolation, right. But what he means by that is times where where, you know, there’s something in the day that that you know, you’re anxious about or, or was not helpful, or you were angry about or cynical about or whatever. It’s, it’s really trying to look at your day and see where those thoughts would lead if you followed them, right. And they always lead to less of a conscious relationship with God. And the constellation would be the opposite. These are things that would lead you more into God’s presence. And Brian being able to tell the difference,
when it’s funny with like language to write because we use constellation as like, you get the consolation prize, which is lesser exactly,
but yeah, for some consolation,
yeah. That is those those times when Wow, that was, that was maybe God speaking to me, right through a friend and what what would have happened if I would have took that for if I would have pushed a little more into that, right and less into that moment of desolation. Right, right, right. Because often we we get spiraled. And when we were view our day, we may review it and be like, oh, that person said this, and I’m so mad, and they don’t realize I do this and that. And that’s not this prayer, right? It’s not that prayer is to, is to note that and say, Man, look how, how that sidetracked my whole day of what maybe God wanted me to do today.
And it’s following that thought goes nowhere good. And, and part
of this too, right? Is is the recognition. Okay, that day is already over, right? And that’s really kind of step four is forgiveness, right? The, the, hey, I look at my life and say, Yeah, I got I realized where I didn’t follow you in these moments today. And so the the exercises and the PARCC exam, and it’s, it’s about the long game, right? Right. It’s about recognizing, oh, and the next night recognizing man and so you can get into that habit of or that moment where man now during the day, if you sense it, you know, I need to action here and
both the exercises and the examine our, you know, you can modify them to what works for you. And actually almost any, you know, Ignatius spiritual director will say that, I mean, you don’t have to follow this stuff slavish Lee, you just need to find what works in that for you. Yeah. And then stick with that, because right persons different, right.
It’s so true. There’s all of these Yeah, it’s not a cookie cutter spirituality. It’s not, they’re not at all Yeah, that all of these ancient Christian practices are some that you can modify, and adjust. And then with step five of the examine prayer is, is labeled as renewal. And it is just, okay, I’ve asked God for forgiveness. And now this one is kind of like the week for is, okay, God, how do I then take this and live this out? And in in a concrete way, right? How can I concrete live what I’m learning right now? Next day? How can I love that? And? And how can that kind of loving desire, keep building? And then you transition out of that with the awareness that you’re not going into the next day alone? Right? God will be with you. Right? And that’s how you conclude
the exam, sort of like brother Lawrence, you just you just right, you’re just aware of the presence of Yes, and with you, right, and everything you’re doing right, and be very mindful that Yeah, I have actually a copy of the examine on my bedside table. But that’s probably not the best place for it. Because if I do that too late at night, I never get to step five. Right? Right. Never do when I do that. And I’m actually not as adept. As you are. And in doing that, and with the examine, but sometimes I’ll do it, you know, when I first get home from work, right? And so it’s not the whole day, but it’s 24 hours after. Yeah, I did it last and I’m just, you know, not not falling asleep.
And that that really is the key is I think, and this is for any of the ancient practices or any any spiritual discipline that you’ve finding the right time, right in your rhythm, Mike, because you might see someone else and they get up at five every morning and you’re just like, oh, they’re so spiritual. And you’re like, I could never do that. And it’s, that’s okay. Like that. Five might not be your time. Exact like, midnight might be your time. And that person could never do midnight. Like I could never start. Yeah, I couldn’t start the examine at 930. I’d be out. I’ve already been asleep by 930. So, so but it’s finding that time and then, and then making that time, right, and just sticking with it. Yeah. And and again, even if it’s not, even if it’s not every night, right, right. But even can you think like how your life would be different? Even if once a week? You took a half hour in and followed these steps and say, Wow, what has got down in my information? Even once a week? Right? Yeah, it would. And I think it would cause that hunger to to do it more. Right. Right. And because really what this is, is an unintentional stop in your day in your life, to reflect on what God is doing. Right? What he has been doing, and maybe you’ve just missed, but now taking this moment, you can say, oh, man, I totally want for you to Yeah, future and you set yourself up to be able to see that you’re aware of it and be mindful. what’s what’s interesting for me, like kind of my life phase, I see it so much. When I do this, I can look back and see. Oh, man, that moment with my son, I could have. I could push more there, right. I could have like I was I was busy. I had stuff I had to do. But then you’ll have those
moments in the future. Yeah, yeah. And that’ll be aware of Right, exactly. Right.
That moment with my wife, man, I could have I, I went this way. And I could have gone the other way. But that’s Yeah, that’s prep for the next day. And knowing that, and those are moments that that got to speaking so. So for me, I just want to kind of as we wrap up, because we’re going to be we still have a part three that will come in and we’re excited to have Matt Gosh, all right. Professor of New Testament and theology. He’s been on the show. He’s a friend of the show, right? He’s going to be finally
get an expert in on it.
Yeah, exactly. He’s gonna come we’re gonna hear from him kind of what practices and we’re definitely going to be looking at more prayer elements as well. Maybe some contemplative prayer. Really, the examine prayer is a good way to understand what contemplative prayer can be right. Right. And, and it’s prayer and this this more robust fashion than just Hey, God, thanks for the day. These are things I need, right, you know, helped me to have a good night’s sleep.
That’s wrong to me that stuff
again, right? Again, praying and deeper and wider than Yeah, it is. And and, and so I just want to kind of review for for the listeners as we end kind of the guides, the book guides that we’ve used so for me, the book was the examine prayer and nation wisdom for our lives today by Timothy Gallagher. And then for the nation extra as I know, you found one right
finally on what really works for me and honestly, there are hundreds of books on the spiritual exercises on the examine on other things. So it’s a matter of just finding the one that speaks speaks with you, but I finally found one called the Ignatius adventure, if it has adventure, and it captures me but experiencing the spiritual exercises of Ignatius in daily life, and it’s by Kevin O’Brien and is really, really well done. And in bite sized pieces, and in contemporary language. Yeah. I found that really helpful. Certainly more helpful to some of the books I had when I tried it before, right. I just got all caught up in you know, yeah, language that just I didn’t read it anyway.
And that’s, I think that’s helpful advice. Right? If we if you’re interested in you get into something and is not jelling. Look for another source Samantha’s time I think we try to force we’re trying to force through it, because we think we should now he did it. Yeah. And it’s, I think one thing with the practices is that there’s so much in so many options. Exactly. I think our purpose with this show is just to show you two examples,
right? From one person. Scores more
Yeah, there’s so many but these are and so if you’ve never tried any, maybe try these and then see what happens. And they may they may,
they’re not mutually exclusive, either. I mean, you can you know, you can be informed by ignorance. Spirituality and still, you know, read, you know, whatever contemporary evangelical author you want to. Yeah, exactly. They’re not mutually exclusive.
And so I think our hope with with this kind of three part series is just that we would perk your interest. If you haven’t gotten into these practices are disciplines, you would choose one to try
to demystify Yeah, right. Right. And I don’t know, growing up, you know, Baptist, and anything, you know, that comes from a Catholic tradition was just off limits. And so right, you know, you have to sort of get over that hurdle to when you find out this stuff, just all about Jesus. Yeah. All about all it is is all about Jesus, then, then it’s like, why didn’t somebody tell me about that a long time ago?
Exactly. Yeah. So that I have purposes to tell you about it now. Exactly. Now, you know, now, you know, and the more you know, we can get maybe we get credits are on them. But thanks for your insight. And thanks for. I mean, just for me, personally, you’ve really impacted the way I view the exercises and how they can fit. And I’m excited to jump in to the exercise and
maybe I need to be more disciplined with the exam and you’re
there we go. All right. Perfect. All right. Well, thanks for Joe looking for part three. Right. Yeah. Thank you for listening to Jessup. Think Be sure to follow us on Twitter at Jessup think we would love to hear your thoughts on the episode and engage with any questions you have. Our aim is to provide a framework for further reflection and deeper exploration of these important topics. You can also help the show by leaving a review on iTunes these reviews help the podcast reach new listeners. Until next time, I’m Mark Moore and this is Jessup.
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